I received an important comment to one of my posts, and feel obligated to clarify my views on the issue of religion. Some who consider themselves fervent believers in one or another organized religion feel that God wants them to bear witness to His Word. Those of us who believe in God, but mistrust the fallibility of the human beings who run organized religions, stand meekly by, afraid to say what we envision as the truth. We are anxious because we are iconoclasts, isolated and without support for our views. I want to be the first to say that it is our obligation to "witness" too, and that there are probably enough of us around to form our own religion.
I’m not a libertarian, as my commentator has defined me, as I believe in government intervention, and even “big government,” with such things as the environment, food and drug safety, support for science and medicine, and defense. I am libertarian on some issues. I don’t want the government in my personal business. I want them out of my bedroom and morals.
I think that I am basically a neo-con. My commentator is, I believe, a right wing, conservative, fundamentalist Christian. What I don’t like about fundamentalists, of any religion, and about most organized religions, is their intolerance. I don’t like people having the gall to think they have a direct pipeline to God and that I don’t. I don’t respect anyone who is not open to God speaking to him or her now, right now, and instead relying on what people a long time ago said about God speaking to them.
I also do not like fundamentalists because of their moral certainty. They consider their values as “facts.” As my reader said, it is a “fact” that a unique human life begins at conception. I know that even the Catholic Church has a long-standing debate about the moment when the human soul enters the body. Some say it’s at conception; others believe it’s at birth; and still others think it happens somewhere in-between.
The fundamentalist Muslim “knows” that Allah wants him to blow up women and children; the fundamentalist Jew is certain that Yahweh has set aside Ha Aretz for the Jews; and the fundamentalist Christian has been told by God that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ is going to hell. Fundamentalism has caused jihads, the blowing up of mosques, the Inquisition, and 9/11.
If you are religious, I respect you very much, as long as you respect me. I know that you are trying to listen to God, striving to live a good life, and working to be decent to your fellow human beings. These are all good. I stop respecting you when you believe God is talking to you and not me, that you are better than me because of your beliefs, or that God is telling you to hurt me.
Religion has been a force for great good in the world, and great evil. The evil, in my opinion, always comes from the fundamentalists. The good comes from people struggling to know the truth, straining to know what God wants, in humility. My advice for you is: yes, listen to what is written in the Quran, the Torah, the Bible; heed the teachings of your mosque, synagogue, or church; but don’t turn a deaf ear to what is happening at this moment. God is talking to you now. Do you hear Him? Is He speaking just to you? Or is He talking to me too?
God bless you all.
Rock
This Post's Technorati Tags: religion, opinion, fundamentalism, right-wing, conservative, Christian, Israel, Jew, Bible, Quran, Torah, Ha Aretz, God, Jesus Christ, Allah, truth
18 comments:
Damn I knew I liked you! I wish more people in the world would think like us- yes US. I must say that our hope for humanity is one in the same. If only the rest of the world- and the afformentioned fundamentalists could see that accepting and appreciating differences is so much easier than rejecting and killing over them.
paz y amor, hey friend, I like you too. Glad you're back to make another comment, and what a nice one. I'm sure we'll disagree on some things, but I see we have several things in common, and that's great. This is one of the things I love about blogging, meeting intelligent and good people like yourself. Thanks again.
look at http://truthguys.blogspot.com
I think you are correct, except for the part about listening to what's written in the Quran. That book teaches absolute intolerance and advocates second-class human status or death to all non-believers. Islam is a death-cult who's sole purpose is to convert or destroy. Claims of it being a "peacefull religion" are among it's biggest lies. It is not wise to turn a blind eye to Islam. The world domination goal of Islam is contrary to your beliefs. You will need to decide which path you're taking. If you choose to not convert than you are against Islam. There is no in-between. As a non-beleiver you should expect to be targeted for war. A really big war.No other "Religion" has that implication for humanity.
arcticman, you may be surprised to find that I entirely agree with you. In fact, this will be the topic of one of my posts in the near future. One of the problems, I understand, is that Islam has no central authority, so each sect and even mosque is free to interpret the Quran as they see fit. Plus, you are right, this religion was founded on bloodshed and it is apparent in the writings of the Quran. The Catholic religion had its own problems. It propagated the Inquisition and other atrocities. However, then came the Reformation and other reforms. Now, Catholicism and Christianity are mostly forces for good.
The Muslim religion needs a reformation badly. To do this, they must have a restructuring so they have a central authority (or one for each sect) to carry it out. To even start with all this they require the will to do it. To reform Islam would take a mass movement of martyrs, not the kind of martyrs they revere now. Rather, martyrs who are not afraid to die in order to speak the truth, with a message of peace and love, and tolerance.
I don’t see it happening. I doubt it will happen. So, I'm on your side.
Thanks for the comment.
eh, rock, tell me, when you are saying:
[t]he Muslim religion needs a reformation badly ... they must ... , etc, etc,
is it your intention to rule their lives, or is it just happened that you sound like pontificating ?
no need to pander to me, rock!
i am just trying to understand you,
that's why i am trying to resolve the seeming contradiction between your first saying that you despise "holier than you" people (hope i understood you correctly),
and your second saying - actually - pontificating what religion millions of people (on the other side of the planet - no less!) should have...
==================================
i take it you are an american. afaik, there is an excellent american motto - maybe the one that defines the american spirit - "Don't tread on me!". my guess it's what you'd say when someone starts telling you how you should live, am i right ?
and then, don't you see that you do tread upon lives of people 000s miles away from your shores. what's exactly your business in the muslim lands ?! how does their way of life constitute any business of yours ?!
exactly, rock !
as soon as we stop treading upon them - in their own lands - they'd better stop blowing up our buildings ! (and if they wouldn't, only then we would have the right to just kill them all, for god's sake, if they don't want to co-exist with us on the same planet, but not before !)
i guess you are old enough to remember the cold war, if one to believe your profile... now, to make myself clear, let me turn tables a little.
imagine that, say in 70s, miscellaneous communists (both from inside USA and from abroad) went to, say, Maryland and establish Communist Republic of Maryland. fortunately, american patriots would fight them to death, even if/when notoriuosly corrupt US congress would allow itself to be bought by USSR with, say, cheap oil. obviously, Communist Republic of Maryland would be drawing huge support from USSR.
now, tell me, in this situation, would Moscow be a fair target for american patriots ? Yes, it certainly would be a fair target !
now, just replace "Communist Republic of Maryland" with "Israel", "USSR" with "USA", and "Moscow" with "New York".
now, as i was writing my last comment, your second comment arrived - about death of innocent people.
well, you are partially right, i am rather thick skinned person - unlike most people i realize that Death is the most common and normal thing in this World.
as for my not condemning the killing of innocents (i presume you mean 9/11),
well,
1st) they were not that innocent, see my previous message, and
2nd) there is/was/willbe A LOT of killing of innocents around. (right now in lebanon) - africa, indonesia, india, anywhere, you name a continent. i just don't see that newyorkers are somehow "special".
rock, whether you like it or not, killing each other is the way human lived so far. (pls, don't blame the messenger.)
as for the cheering 9/11, ... , didn't we cheer carpet bombing of cities of "dirty nips" and "german nazies" ?
please, try to realize, that for muslims/arabs Palestine is like Pearl Harbour for americans. once USA stands with Israel in this war - NY is nor more innocent than, say, Hiroshima in 1945. (just for case - my opinion is that using atomic bombs in 1945 was a right and wise decision, so you don't think i am some kind of flipflop liberal... i just say what i think.)
igor, it’s nice that you are thick-skinned about other people dying. Are you thick-skinned about your people dying too, or your family—or just infidels, Americans and Israelis?
Because a lot of innocents will be killed are we supposed to accept this as natural? You just reinforce my bias that your religion is a dark one, a religion of death.
Yes, we cheered the killing of Germans and Japanese. We also dropped a nuclear bomb. I’m not going to defend these things. They did happen, though, after we were attacked, at Pearl Harbor. They did happen against two peoples who were committing atrocities and trying to take over the world.
The only thing Israeli’s did was occupy a sliver of land where they had been living since the time of Christ. The state of Israel had existed several times in history. It was not a new thing. They did not have a home in Europe, because of Nazi Germany. Israel was a natural place for them to form their state.
They were attacked from all sides in 1947. All they’ve been doing since is defend themselves. They do not try to take over lands, except lands that they win in defensive wars.
It’s amazing that you think the people in the twin towers were “not that innocent,” because they supported Israel.
Israel is a good country. Yes, they used terrorism too, in the beginning. I don’t support that. They don’t use these tactics anymore. I think the world needs to decide not to use this tactic. It is not natural. It’s inhuman.
If communists came to America to form a state, yes, we would fight them. A more apt comparison would be the civil war, though, because Hebrews are native to the Middle East. Again, though, yes we would fight. We would not, though, slit people’s throats, leave bombs for babies, and blow up buildings full of only civilians.
I know I can’t convince you. It’s abhorrent for me to hear the things you believe. It just shows why we have such a mess in the world today. You can’t just take your part of Palestine and let the Israelis keep theirs? Make love, raise babies, send your children to good schools, have fun, and stop hating? Un-fucking believable.
rock, you are too quick in your conclusions about me. and your conclusions are way too simpletonian to be correct.
but back to business:
The only thing Israeli’s did was occupy a sliver of land ...
the only thing japanese did is attack a little island, they were not going to occupy the USA, just a little sliver of land. ok?
... where they had been living since the time of Christ .
you probably wanted to say: "before the time of Christ", but even that is ridiculous. even in your state (CA), if land owner do not utilise his ownership for, say, several years, he easily looses the title to land to other claimants, if any.
after the Christ, jews' state was disbanded, Jerusalem's destroyed - and what's important - jews accepted the defeat, ceased the fight and mostly left the land - 2000 yrs ago (if we believe the history (which i generally do not, btw)) - thus they effectively surrendered their title to the land, historical blah-blah-blah notwithstanding.
Israel was a natural place for them to form their state.
that's the matter of opinion. jews think so. you think so. alas, muslims and arabs (the inhabitants of that "natural place") have another opinion. and from their point of view, Israel is the invader and occupier. so they fight Israel. USA joined this fight on the side of Israel, is it not so ? so muslims see it and they fight US as well.
now what is it you are lamenting about ?
let me first clearly explain my position re that conflict:
a) i am neither muslim, nor arab, i don't care about them. moreover, i don't like them and i don't like their religion.
b) i an not a jew, and i don't give a shit about the "cause of jews". it's their problem.
c) that's not my fight !!! just like i don't care to choose side in tutsi-hutu bloody mutual killing.
now, unlike you, i do understand, that if i (ie - my country) enter the brawl - and got hit - i am not going to lament: "Mommy, mommy, they hit innocent me!". Mommy'd just say: "Hey, Johnny, you joined the fight - now don't you cry you got hit and pretend to be innocent!".
that's how life is, rock. you don't like it? you probably wanted that war to be real only for muslims, for yourself you thought it'd be a videogame ? probably, before 9/11 you didn't even realized your country was a party in Israely-arab conflict ... sorry, cannot help you.
as for your claims how you are peaceful and want the killing stop - why don't you demand jews to just leave the Palestine, and there would be no more killing ? Is having their own state worth all that killing in your opinion? say again, i forgot, are you for killing or against ?
this one is very important, so i put it separately:
We would not, though, slit people’s throats, leave bombs for babies, and blow up buildings full of only civilians.
really ? this sounds like a baby-talk of an arm-chair warrior.
we did it WWI, we did it in WWII, we did it Korea, we did it in Nam, we did it in Afgan (i mean: you in Nam, me (russian) in Afgan), we did it in Gulf, we did it in Iraq.
do you think we don't do it now? think again. we just delegate it to special forces, etc.. CNN show you nice clean videogame pictures of precision guided bombs hitting some pictures of some houses. you don't see people there, you don't see children there - and you convince yourself there are none - and you feel clean and high-moral.
but when you think about slitting a throat ... brrrrr , how horrendous !!! really...
but let me tell you, rock, have you ever been on the receiving end of the incoming missile ? I was, and i tell, if/when i am to die, i'd rather have my throat slit than be in blast range of a thermobaric warhead of a nice, cute, laser-guided hellfire missile. if you ever have to choose, pls remember my advice.
Rock-
Igor is clearly a U.S. educated liberal. He writes well, but he thinks like a Moonbat. I read his comments and he sounds no different than any other liberal who chooses to piece togather whatever history they feel suits their argument.We have nothing to fear from people like him, because he is in the minority and still expresses his hatred with lies and mistruths. Presently, he is the type that sits on the sidelines cheering the bully and making excuses for their bad behavior, because he really really hates the person being picked-on even though he has no legitimate reason to . If he decides to take the next step and act out his misguided aggressions he will be defeated, as evil always is by good people.
arcticman said:
... [igor] expresses his hatred with lies and mistruths ...
can you point your finger to the "lies" i expressed here, arcticman ?
igor, don't ask for logic from arcticman, or from me, or from anyone. You don't listen to logic. Thank you arcticman for your comment.
Thank you igor for sharing your views. I hope one day you re-examine your life and your philosophy. Take care.
funny... I asked question to Arcticman, but got the "answer" from Rock. So, you are the same person, aren't you? Using multiple nicknames to pretend there is "support" for your lunatic blog, are we, Rocky?
Yeah, igor, that makes sense. Just like the rest of your drivel.
Quite a string (conversation) from a post responding to little ol' me! Rock, have you ever checked out the "relilgion test" back on my second post? It would be interesting to find out where you stood, if only to yourself!
Now that you have moderation on, this can be used as a message board, huh?
Igor, if you happen to return, unlike you the rest of us log on as bloggers with verifiable links.
"Arcticman," I got a hit from Alaska the other day. It wasn't you, was it?
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