This is the First Archive for Rock's Truth blog.
June 24, 2006 to November, 10, 2006
Thursday, July 27, 2006
Special Treat
This is just a special treat for one of my commenters. A picture of truth.
Have a good day.
Rock
11 comments:
Anonymous
said...
yeah, I don't like arabs ...
still, --- once the word "truth" was mentioned, ------ it must be said that the above picture would be true for ANY regular army vs guerillas conflict, -------- do you agree? for example: during the War of Independence, american revolutionaries did strike at red coats from under cover of civilian population of the 13 colonies...
igor, the Americans finally did learn to hide themselves in the woods instead of standing toe-to-toe with the British. However, they did not gather women and children together and use them as human shields.
The North Vietnamese used the tactic in Vietnam, but they did it to hide, not really using the civilians as a shield.
The shield idea is a relatively new tactic. It shows a basic disregard for life.
Yes, it's being used by guerillas. I don't see that this tactic does anything but lead to an unlivable world.
I cannot argue that, rock, you are 100% right here.
you know, the "shield" tactic, I think, is relatevely new invention because the world (ie humans) became more ... gentle. more moral. less vicious.
In the past that tactic wasn't useful just because noone would give a second thought about killing some women/children, if they got in the way... not that IDF seems to care much even now, it's the gentle western TV viewers who are eventual target audience of this tactic of hezbolla today...
life is ... tough. And not fair: look: the good guys are always the ones who won (because they then write the history), and their defeated opponents are always monsters... if it is guerillas who won - they go in history as "freedom fighters", "brave revolutionaries", etc... if they loose, they are known as "coward rebels", "terrorists", etc...
Rock, let me first say thanks for chiming in on the "Quirks" post. That was exactly what I was looking for. Second I have to say that I have a couple issues with this post (and with Igor saying "I don't like Arabs..." I've read your words and I can only assume that you're a lot more intelligent than that!) In the 20's the statement was "I don't like Irishmen", in the 30's it was, I don't like Catholics, in the 50's it was "I don't like communists", in the 60's it was "I don't like Black people" and now it's "I don't like Arabs or immigrants". Notice a little pattern of ignorance here?- but I digress. Anytime a military force occupies a civilian area, they are putting that population at risk. The US did it in French towns during WWII, the Russians did it at Stalingrad, the Nazis did it in Berlin, the Serbs did it in Belgrade. Again, the ONLY difference between a "military" and a "guerilla army" is the existence of a recognized government and this human shield issue is something that happens all the time from governments and terrorists alike. Since "the Arabs" are the enemy this time around, they're the ones getting kicked around when in fact they are no different than anyone else in history fighting a war. If this war on terror goes poorly for the US and God forbid we "lose", would the history books be justified in saying that Osama was right? Logic would say yes....although few here (including myself) would agree.
paz y amor, I am a bit uncomfortable writing to you here, as this is rock's place and it's not a good manner to use his blog for talks between 3rd parties, I just hope rock wouldn't mind... much...
I am not getting you, What are the issues you have re: my not liking arabs/muslims ? Yeah, I know it's not politically correct and, probably, could be labelled racist in many (most?) contents... but how else can I say it? I just don't ... like them.
I don't mean: "I hate them", no. I don't consider them my enemies (not yet, unlike rock here, I refuse to judge 9/11 without proper consideration of enormous injustices we unleashed onto them since WWII - well before 9/11). I hope that "clash of civilisations" would stay no more than academic blah-blah-blah (and it's our responsibility to ... mmm ... stifle WWIII mongers, those who are on our side of the aisle, that is).
So, I just ... don't like them. Look, you may have a lot of neighbours, do you like them all? Could there be a family you just don't like there, don't like how they party, how they raise their kids, how they go (don't go) to church. Or you don't like their church (some cult, maybe. or, worse yet, atheists!). Some neighbours you like, most you don't think of, some you don't like.
It's not that you wish them bad. It's just you wouldn't live the way they do. You wouldn't live with them under one roof, but, as neighbours - it's ok.
Pls, don't try to look for what is absent in my words. I don't like milk. I don't like Joneses. I don't like muslims/arabs. Big deal. I know, they don't like my kind. So what? It's all ok so far as we don't tread on each other.
Look, with blacks (one of your examples) this my line of reasoning wouldn't fly - because you were already "living together under one roof". So, there was no choice but to learn to "like" each other. As for the muslims - I don't see a problem in just being neighbours - no need to like each other, just a need for a neighbourly respect. And, hopefully, it'd be a non-issue in, say, 100 years. Agree ?
Wow. The cartoon caught my attention but now i'm really interested in the "back and forth" between Igor and paz y amor! Rock, the older I get, the more I realize that sometimes political incorrectness is a little refreshing.
Both of you, I don't agree that history always gets to paint the victors as the good guys, and the losers as the terrorists. Witness Mao. Witness Stalin. Witness Pol Pot.
I also don't agree with you paz, that both sides in every war use human shields. I respect you a lot, but that is simply untrue. Americans have never used this tactic. Hiding behind women and children? Crouching behind babies? No, we've never done it.
Yes, in WWII, we attacked civilians deliberately, which again I define as a terrorist act. Yet, the goal was to stop atrocities and save lives.
Now, we use no such tactics. We don't attack civilians as targets. And we don't use civilians as human shields. Have we evolved. I think yes.
igor, you might be right, we in the West are "soft." We don't slit throats, we do worry about collateral damage, and we don't put bombs in open-air markets.
No, you're right, paz, I love Arabs, and Muslims. I don't love their extreme brethren, though. Hatred is a good thing, when it's against evil. I hate the terrorists.
igor, I understand the point you're trying to make about liking or not liking a group of people. I think underneath a lot of people feel this way, but they don't say it. I've struggled to be open-minded about people with ways of life that differ from mine. I'm no better than anyone else at this.
On the other hand, I do believe that all people were created by, and beloved by, God, or whoever is the Source. Yet, as I've said, I don't like some organized religions--human beings who have twisted their faiths in the service of evil. Like the people who believe in getting 72 virgins for killing babies.
Thank you both. We humans desperately need to talk these things out.
Wow. The cartoon caught my attention but now i'm really interested in the "back and forth" between Igor and paz y amor! Rock, the older I get, the more I realize that sometimes political incorrectness is a little refreshing.
kiyotoe, I agree with you. I think it might be better for people to say how they really feel, as igor always does, and get feedback on those thoughts, rather than keeping them bottled up inside.
igor, I have no problem with you side-talking with someone who has made a comment. It was great. Thanks for your polite concern with my feelings, though.
koytoe, what a beautiful blog you have. It takes me back to my Catholic roots and makes me think and ponder. God bless you.
I have to agree that political correctness isn't ALWAYS a good thing. It keeps people from saying what they really mean and equally important, it keeps people from hearing those opinions. The problem I have with Igor's statement it that it's a generalization about an entire group of people. It's one thing to say, "I don't milk or my loud ass, rude neighbors". It's justified because you've experienced something about that particular familiy that bothers you. It's not their culture, not their skin color, not their religion. It's the fact that they're RUDE and LOUD. Saying "I don't like Muslims/Arabs" is a blanket statement competely void of validity simply because like most Americans, you've probably had a limited experience with them. If you've visited an Arab household, talked personally to people of the Muslim faith, eaten Middle Eastern food and THEN said, "You know, I don't think I like Arabs too much"- you'd be completely justified because you have a concrete reference. Don't get me wrong, there are Arabs (and other foreigners- French, Brits, Indonesians, Chinese) who don't like you simply because you're American and their rationale is completely invalid too. Did you feel that strongly about Arabs BEFORE 9-11? Probably not. I'm not trying to change your opinion about it- but I think you fail to realize that your logic doesn't fly for disliking ANY ethnic group, Black, Arab, Asian, White etc. The "roof" we live under is GLOBAL, not just the US and you'll find that you have much more in common with Arabs and Muslims than you think.....
paz y amor, I agree with you, and I think this issue is one of the most pressing things we've got to work on in life. It's very important to respect all kinds of people and ways of life, as long as they're not harming others.
when I said "I don't like muslims" - the meaning I put in is in line with the way we discuss world affairs.
"muslim"/"muslim people" stands not for "muslim people per se", but for "muslim civilisation", "muslim culture".
the neighbour analogy is like in "France and Germany are neighbours"
your "global" roof - that's what I mean - we should live together, as good neighbours, respecting each other, under the "global" roof.
9/11 didn't change my view of muslims or west/muslim "conflict". did I sound like a redneck who first heard about al-quaeda after 9/11 ???
I am not an american, I am russian, now a canadian resident, Toronto.
yes, I lived with muslims (South Asians - all those *stans) - for 2 years in Soviet Army - and, as they say, it's when in stressfull situations you come to have opinion about people... no, I didn't participate in USSR's Afgan War myself, but I served at the time and with veterans of that war.
and in addition - I interacted with them a lot, both in Moscow and in their own environment - in the *stans and in the Caucases.
11 comments:
yeah, I don't like arabs ...
still,
--- once the word "truth" was mentioned,
------ it must be said that the above picture would be true for ANY regular army vs guerillas conflict,
-------- do you agree?
for example: during the War of Independence, american revolutionaries did strike at red coats from under cover of civilian population of the 13 colonies...
still, thanx for caring.
igor, the Americans finally did learn to hide themselves in the woods instead of standing toe-to-toe with the British. However, they did not gather women and children together and use them as human shields.
The North Vietnamese used the tactic in Vietnam, but they did it to hide, not really using the civilians as a shield.
The shield idea is a relatively new tactic. It shows a basic disregard for life.
Yes, it's being used by guerillas. I don't see that this tactic does anything but lead to an unlivable world.
I cannot argue that, rock, you are 100% right here.
you know, the "shield" tactic, I think, is relatevely new invention because the world (ie humans) became more ... gentle. more moral. less vicious.
In the past that tactic wasn't useful just because noone would give a second thought about killing some women/children, if they got in the way... not that IDF seems to care much even now, it's the gentle western TV viewers who are eventual target audience of this tactic of hezbolla today...
life is ... tough. And not fair: look: the good guys are always the ones who won (because they then write the history), and their defeated opponents are always monsters... if it is guerillas who won - they go in history as "freedom fighters", "brave revolutionaries", etc... if they loose, they are known as "coward rebels", "terrorists", etc...
Rock, let me first say thanks for chiming in on the "Quirks" post. That was exactly what I was looking for. Second I have to say that I have a couple issues with this post (and with Igor saying "I don't like Arabs..." I've read your words and I can only assume that you're a lot more intelligent than that!) In the 20's the statement was "I don't like Irishmen", in the 30's it was, I don't like Catholics, in the 50's it was "I don't like communists", in the 60's it was "I don't like Black people" and now it's "I don't like Arabs or immigrants". Notice a little pattern of ignorance here?- but I digress. Anytime a military force occupies a civilian area, they are putting that population at risk. The US did it in French towns during WWII, the Russians did it at Stalingrad, the Nazis did it in Berlin, the Serbs did it in Belgrade. Again, the ONLY difference between a "military" and a "guerilla army" is the existence of a recognized government and this human shield issue is something that happens all the time from governments and terrorists alike. Since "the Arabs" are the enemy this time around, they're the ones getting kicked around when in fact they are no different than anyone else in history fighting a war. If this war on terror goes poorly for the US and God forbid we "lose", would the history books be justified in saying that Osama was right? Logic would say yes....although few here (including myself) would agree.
paz y amor, I am a bit uncomfortable writing to you here, as this is rock's place and it's not a good manner to use his blog for talks between 3rd parties, I just hope rock wouldn't mind... much...
I am not getting you, What are the issues you have re: my not liking arabs/muslims ? Yeah, I know it's not politically correct and, probably, could be labelled racist in many (most?) contents... but how else can I say it? I just don't ... like them.
I don't mean: "I hate them", no. I don't consider them my enemies (not yet, unlike rock here, I refuse to judge 9/11 without proper consideration of enormous injustices we unleashed onto them since WWII - well before 9/11). I hope that "clash of civilisations" would stay no more than academic blah-blah-blah (and it's our responsibility to ... mmm ... stifle WWIII mongers, those who are on our side of the aisle, that is).
So, I just ... don't like them. Look, you may have a lot of neighbours, do you like them all? Could there be a family you just don't like there, don't like how they party, how they raise their kids, how they go (don't go) to church. Or you don't like their church (some cult, maybe. or, worse yet, atheists!). Some neighbours you like, most you don't think of, some you don't like.
It's not that you wish them bad. It's just you wouldn't live the way they do. You wouldn't live with them under one roof, but, as neighbours - it's ok.
Pls, don't try to look for what is absent in my words. I don't like milk. I don't like Joneses. I don't like muslims/arabs. Big deal. I know, they don't like my kind. So what? It's all ok so far as we don't tread on each other.
Look, with blacks (one of your examples) this my line of reasoning wouldn't fly - because you were already "living together under one roof". So, there was no choice but to learn to "like" each other. As for the muslims - I don't see a problem in just being neighbours - no need to like each other, just a need for a neighbourly respect. And, hopefully, it'd be a non-issue in, say, 100 years. Agree ?
Wow. The cartoon caught my attention but now i'm really interested in the "back and forth" between Igor and paz y amor!
Rock, the older I get, the more I realize that sometimes political incorrectness is a little refreshing.
paz y amor and igor, great discussion. Thanks.
Both of you, I don't agree that history always gets to paint the victors as the good guys, and the losers as the terrorists. Witness Mao. Witness Stalin. Witness Pol Pot.
I also don't agree with you paz, that both sides in every war use human shields. I respect you a lot, but that is simply untrue. Americans have never used this tactic. Hiding behind women and children? Crouching behind babies? No, we've never done it.
Yes, in WWII, we attacked civilians deliberately, which again I define as a terrorist act. Yet, the goal was to stop atrocities and save lives.
Now, we use no such tactics. We don't attack civilians as targets. And we don't use civilians as human shields. Have we evolved. I think yes.
igor, you might be right, we in the West are "soft." We don't slit throats, we do worry about collateral damage, and we don't put bombs in open-air markets.
No, you're right, paz, I love Arabs, and Muslims. I don't love their extreme brethren, though. Hatred is a good thing, when it's against evil. I hate the terrorists.
igor, I understand the point you're trying to make about liking or not liking a group of people. I think underneath a lot of people feel this way, but they don't say it. I've struggled to be open-minded about people with ways of life that differ from mine. I'm no better than anyone else at this.
On the other hand, I do believe that all people were created by, and beloved by, God, or whoever is the Source. Yet, as I've said, I don't like some organized religions--human beings who have twisted their faiths in the service of evil. Like the people who believe in getting 72 virgins for killing babies.
Thank you both. We humans desperately need to talk these things out.
Wow. The cartoon caught my attention but now i'm really interested in the "back and forth" between Igor and paz y amor!
Rock, the older I get, the more I realize that sometimes political incorrectness is a little refreshing.
kiyotoe, I agree with you. I think it might be better for people to say how they really feel, as igor always does, and get feedback on those thoughts, rather than keeping them bottled up inside.
igor, I have no problem with you side-talking with someone who has made a comment. It was great. Thanks for your polite concern with my feelings, though.
koytoe, what a beautiful blog you have. It takes me back to my Catholic roots and makes me think and ponder. God bless you.
Everyone, have a good day.
Rock
I have to agree that political correctness isn't ALWAYS a good thing. It keeps people from saying what they really mean and equally important, it keeps people from hearing those opinions. The problem I have with Igor's statement it that it's a generalization about an entire group of people. It's one thing to say, "I don't milk or my loud ass, rude neighbors". It's justified because you've experienced something about that particular familiy that bothers you. It's not their culture, not their skin color, not their religion. It's the fact that they're RUDE and LOUD. Saying "I don't like Muslims/Arabs" is a blanket statement competely void of validity simply because like most Americans, you've probably had a limited experience with them. If you've visited an Arab household, talked personally to people of the Muslim faith, eaten Middle Eastern food and THEN said, "You know, I don't think I like Arabs too much"- you'd be completely justified because you have a concrete reference. Don't get me wrong, there are Arabs (and other foreigners- French, Brits, Indonesians, Chinese) who don't like you simply because you're American and their rationale is completely invalid too. Did you feel that strongly about Arabs BEFORE 9-11? Probably not. I'm not trying to change your opinion about it- but I think you fail to realize that your logic doesn't fly for disliking ANY ethnic group, Black, Arab, Asian, White etc. The "roof" we live under is GLOBAL, not just the US and you'll find that you have much more in common with Arabs and Muslims than you think.....
paz y amor, I agree with you, and I think this issue is one of the most pressing things we've got to work on in life. It's very important to respect all kinds of people and ways of life, as long as they're not harming others.
mmmm....
when I said "I don't like muslims" - the meaning I put in is in line with the way we discuss world affairs.
"muslim"/"muslim people" stands not for "muslim people per se", but for "muslim civilisation", "muslim culture".
the neighbour analogy is like in "France and Germany are neighbours"
your "global" roof - that's what I mean - we should live together, as good neighbours, respecting each other, under the "global" roof.
9/11 didn't change my view of muslims or west/muslim "conflict". did I sound like a redneck who first heard about al-quaeda after 9/11 ???
I am not an american, I am russian, now a canadian resident, Toronto.
yes, I lived with muslims (South Asians - all those *stans) - for 2 years in Soviet Army - and, as they say, it's when in stressfull situations you come to have opinion about people... no, I didn't participate in USSR's Afgan War myself, but I served at the time and with veterans of that war.
and in addition - I interacted with them a lot, both in Moscow and in their own environment - in the *stans and in the Caucases.
Post a Comment